Aftermarket Coil

[Rat]

I've seen "No resistor/No timing retard" coils available as an upgrade for kart engines. What's the story?
It seems like a gimmick to me, but idk and would like some input from anyone that has used one to compare it to a stock coil.

@panchothedog ?
@Denny ?
@Functional Artist ?

 

[Hellion]

 

[Rat]

You would think a few hundred someone's would have investigated them things...

 

[Denny]

I don’t know about them. I do know some of the factory coils do cut spark at certain rpm’s. I keep all my engines stock.

 

[BaconBitRacing]

If anyone has experience with this, it's @BrownStainRacing.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

If anyone has experience with this, it's @BrownStainRacing.

The ONLY way to prove it, is with a dial back timing light.

I've checked Dover Power performance coils, it took my own eyes to believe it.

They work, no bs, no gimmick.
The only coils I use and recommend.

Performance Coil

www.doverpoweronlinestore.com

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I got another 1 in the mail today,

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Jus by changing the coil, it picked up 2.5 mph, in the same 280ft, now I gotta up the main jet another .002", maybe .003", idk , still tuning this turd motor.

 

[Rat]

The ONLY way to prove it, is with a dial back timing light.

I've checked Dover Power performance coils, it took my own eyes to believe it.

They work, no bs, no gimmick.
The only coils I use and recommend.

Performance Coil

www.doverpoweronlinestore.com

Saw Dover Performance on fleabay, that's actually what made me ask this.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Saw Dover Performance on fleabay, that's actually what made me ask this.

Jerry is good people, my #1 supplier.
I messed up on this order, and he emailed me the same day.

Saves shipping when he can.

 

[Savage3]

Hope this helps, pretty good explanation.....

 

[Rat]

pretty good explanation.....

It's really not actually, it told me nothing I didn't already know about the solid state direct induction ignition systems.
In fact it said absolutely nothing about any use of a resistor to retard ignition timing at higher rpm as a form of electronic governor.

 

[Rat]

Jerry is good people, my #1 supplier.
I messed up on this order, and he emailed me the same day.

Saves shipping when he can.

In the off chance I'm overlooking the obvious...

I'm running a non resistor cap and spiral core Delco automotive HT lead, so do I even actually need a Dover ignition or is there some sort of embeded resistor array in the epoxy of the coil that retards the high rpm timing to prevent overrev?

I'll probably get one when I can. I've clocked rpm spikes as high as 5200 but mostly I'm bouncing a 4500 rev wall.

Probably shouldn't be running a BPR8HS plug either I suppose... I'll make sure to get non-resistor plugs.

 

[Savage3]

It's really not actually, it told me nothing I didn't already know about the solid state direct induction ignition systems.
In fact it said absolutely nothing about any use of a resistor to retard ignition timing at higher rpm as a form of electronic governor.

Read it again sir, the document clearly explains timing is accomplished through the use of an SCR, capacitor, and resistors.

That is not your exact model.

The intent was to help others understand the theory.

It's clear and concise without explaining the specifics of each component sir.

The guidance assumes the reader has a basic working knowledge of electricity and components.

 

[Rat]

Read it again sir, the document clearly explains timing is accomplished through the use of an SCR, capacitor, and resistors.

My bad. In the process of skimming to find what relevant info I was looking for, I skimmed over it.

What I am still unsure of however is how this applies to direct induction coils?

I've known this about CDI ignitions for a long time... which are little more than digitized solid state Points & Condenser ignition when you consider exactly how each functions... I digress.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

In the off chance I'm overlooking the obvious...

I'm running a non resistor cap and spiral core Delco automotive HT lead, so do I even actually need a Dover ignition or is there some sort of embeded resistor array in the epoxy of the coil that retards the high rpm timing to prevent overrev?

I'll probably get one when I can. I've clocked rpm spikes as high as 5200 but mostly I'm bouncing a 4500 rev wall.

Probably shouldn't be running a BPR8HS plug either I suppose... I'll make sure to get non-resistor plugs.

It's something you have to check for yourself.

The dial back timing light I had, probably 10-15 yrs old, wouldn't work with these engines or my antique boat motors (1956-1959 johnson/evinrude). But worked on every auto/truck engine i put it on.

My buddys got 1, we estimated was made in the early 90s, can't read what brand it is or any other writing on it, worked on every thing we hooked it to.

We used a blower housing that was notched out to see the marks we made on the block and flywheel at 0*.

Start the engine, roll dial back to line the marks, thats the advance * btdc, start upping the rpm and you could clearing see the flywheel move away (retard) from the block mark.

Some stock coils started retarding at 4000, others around 4500, only 1 or 2 started at 4800.
Some would have a slow steady retard, while others would be a jerky 2-4* bounce.
Idk what the difference was, but they were different.

We tested with stock, arc and pvl flywheels, all stock coils from clones, preds, ducars, tillys pulled timing out. We didnt have an original honda coil to test.

Whatever dover does to his coils jus plainly works, acceleration is very noticeable by the butt dyno, and mph in the same distance.

I put this last 1 on the ducar 224, had it tuned to run 5400 rpm max (over geared for now), now its back up to 5700 jus from the coil change.

Gotta up the main a hair or 2 now, but in no hurry, gotta better carb coming for it anyways.

I'm sure you can test them with a regular timing light, jus get the marks lined up with whatever * you have it set at. Rev it up and watch it move,

Kinda sounds boring, but I like testing & tuning, sometimes its more fun then riding the trails.

 

[Savage3]

My bad. In the process of skimming to find what relevant info I was looking for, I skimmed over it.

What I am still unsure of however is how this applies to direct induction coils?

I've known this about CDI ignitions for a long time... which are little more than digitized solid state Points & Condenser ignition when you consider exactly how each functions... I digress.

The solid state circuitry is not designed to work as an electronic governor sir.

As you mentioned above, in laymans terms and to keep it simple, it's the modern version of points and condenser.

We don't want to lose focus or go down a rabbit hole and forget the main purpose for retarding/advancing timing.

In short, the purpose of these coils are not to govern rpm.

Hope that helps shed some light as it pertains to your original question.

 

[Rat]

The solid state circuitry is not designed to work as an electronic governor sir.

Seems to me if it's preventing the rpm from exceeding a predetermined given rpm... then it's acting as a form of governor.
I don't care if you argee, or have other words for it. I don't even give a rats *** if it's intentional or incidental, the fact remains that stock coils in fact DO limit the maximum rpm therefore it is in fact a form of governor in the ignition system.

@BrownStainRacing answered my question most directly with the least condescending run around nonsense "Sir"

 

[Savage3]

Correct sir,

Coils that have a rev limiter wired in parallel within the coil do perform the same function as a governor.

If RPM exceeds a preset limit, it will drop out a few firing
pulses, or retard the timing, to prevent over-revving.

 

[Rat]

The solid state circuitry is not designed to work as an electronic governor sir.

First it's not a governor

Correct sir,

Coils that have a rev limiter wired in parallel within the coil do perform the same function as a governor.

If RPM exceeds a preset limit, it will drop out a few firing
pulses, or retard the timing, to prevent over-revving.

Then it is!?!?

Go gaslight someone too stupid to catch it and call you out dude!!