Quantum 7150 weird starting issue

[h3re4fball]

So, a lot of you saw my post about picking up the Quantum 7150 for $150 a little over a week ago. After some digging into the wiring and missing pieces, putting on a new carb, CDI, spark plug and a few other little things, I was able to start it! I had not yet gotten my ignition cylinder in the mail, so I broke the original one so I could turn it and get power, and then jumped the starter solenoid to get it to turn on.
After running the cart for a few minutes, I shut it down and was hanging out in the garage for a few minutes when the starter just started engaging again and wouldnt shut off. The "key" (screwdriver) was off, both kill switches were off, and I even pulled the spark plug boot and it was still firing. So, I disconnected the battery and called it a night.
Well, yesterday my new ignition cylinder came in, which is what I originally thought my problem was. I installed it, turned the key, and the buggy still didnt crank off of key power. Whats up with that? Eager to drive it for the first time, I jumped the solenoid again, and took it around the yard quick - it did randomly die right after I took off, but I jumped it again and it did ok - even got to tear up my grass with a couple of donuts! I pulled it back into my garage, shut her down, and lo-and-behold there it was trying to crank over again. What in the world is happening!

One of the only parts I have not replaced is the starter solenoid - so I have one in the mail and it should be here today. Could that cause the no crank with the key, and could that cause my starter to be part of the living dead?

 

[Karttekk]

So, a lot of you saw my post about picking up the Quantum 7150 for $150 a little over a week ago. After some digging into the wiring and missing pieces, putting on a new carb, CDI, spark plug and a few other little things, I was able to start it! I had not yet gotten my ignition cylinder in the mail, so I broke the original one so I could turn it and get power, and then jumped the starter solenoid to get it to turn on.
After running the cart for a few minutes, I shut it down and was hanging out in the garage for a few minutes when the starter just started engaging again and wouldnt shut off. The "key" (screwdriver) was off, both kill switches were off, and I even pulled the spark plug boot and it was still firing. So, I disconnected the battery and called it a night.
Well, yesterday my new ignition cylinder came in, which is what I originally thought my problem was. I installed it, turned the key, and the buggy still didnt crank off of key power. Whats up with that? Eager to drive it for the first time, I jumped the solenoid again, and took it around the yard quick - it did randomly die right after I took off, but I jumped it again and it did ok - even got to tear up my grass with a couple of donuts! I pulled it back into my garage, shut her down, and lo-and-behold there it was trying to crank over again. What in the world is happening!

One of the only parts I have not replaced is the starter solenoid - so I have one in the mail and it should be here today. Could that cause the no crank with the key, and could that cause my starter to be part of the living dead?

Pick up a 12 volt test light and see if both solenoid terminals are hot. If so, the solenoid is getting power all the time which isn't good or the wiring going to the solenoid is closing the circuit intermittently. Only one side of the key switch should be hot. If both sides are hot you have power completing the circuit. Make sure the wires in the new key switch match the wires in the harness. The last one I changed had mismatched wires in the key switch. I only had power at the key with the key off. I had to re-pin the new key switch by pushing out the wires then reinserting them in the correct slots or holes. Check the fuse near the starter. The test light should help you find where you're getting power where you shouldn't be. Did you do any wiring repairs?

 

[Karttekk]

Make sure any wires in the harness at the key switch aren't melted together and check the wiring at or near the starter.

 

[Snaker]

So, a lot of you saw my post about picking up the Quantum 7150 for $150 a little over a week ago. After some digging into the wiring and missing pieces, putting on a new carb, CDI, spark plug and a few other little things, I was able to start it! I had not yet gotten my ignition cylinder in the mail, so I broke the original one so I could turn it and get power, and then jumped the starter solenoid to get it to turn on.
After running the cart for a few minutes, I shut it down and was hanging out in the garage for a few minutes when the starter just started engaging again and wouldnt shut off. The "key" (screwdriver) was off, both kill switches were off, and I even pulled the spark plug boot and it was still firing. So, I disconnected the battery and called it a night.
Well, yesterday my new ignition cylinder came in, which is what I originally thought my problem was. I installed it, turned the key, and the buggy still didnt crank off of key power. Whats up with that? Eager to drive it for the first time, I jumped the solenoid again, and took it around the yard quick - it did randomly die right after I took off, but I jumped it again and it did ok - even got to tear up my grass with a couple of donuts! I pulled it back into my garage, shut her down, and lo-and-behold there it was trying to crank over again. What in the world is happening!

One of the only parts I have not replaced is the starter solenoid - so I have one in the mail and it should be here today. Could that cause the no crank with the key, and could that cause my starter to be part of the living dead?

ALM has a awful lot of free info on their site, I suggest you gather up as much as you can while its available
But one thing to keep in mind is that it isn't always accurate.
The wiring diagram that you show is wrong I believe.

The solenoid shows essentially a hot loop with the R going through the key switch and back to the solenoid on Y/R
I have another diagram, for the 6150, 7150 and 200 series that has the R wire from solenoid instead being a G and going to chassis ground.
That makes more sense having a switched hot (Y/R) and a classis ground (G) for a solenoid control circuit.

I poked around in the ALM manuals and found one parts manual for the 200 series that shows "Relay starter (6150/7150)", part # shown is 14225. I believe that those GY6 machines are the same in most respects.
You mentioned buying a new solenoid. Is this the one?

 

[Snaker]

Attempting to drop off a pdf
This manual shows your diagram as well as the other style. Page 77?
Take a look and compare

 

[Karttekk]

"The wiring diagram that you show is wrong I believe."

Snaker, I think he has the correct wiring diagram. I wouldn't go by the 200 Series diagram myself, the 6150/7150 should be correct. They both use the same solenoid/relay however. For whatever reason the solenoid is getting energized unless like you pointed out, he purchased the wrong one. This is an odd issue no doubt. Maybe the previous owner installed the wrong wiring harness or did some modifications to the harness. $150.00 for this type of vehicle is way below what they're going for. There's more to this story.

 

[h3re4fball]

ALM has a awful lot of free info on their site, I suggest you gather up as much as you can while its available
But one thing to keep in mind is that it isn't always accurate.
The wiring diagram that you show is wrong I believe.

The solenoid shows essentially a hot loop with the R going through the key switch and back to the solenoid on Y/R
I have another diagram, for the 6150, 7150 and 200 series that has the R wire from solenoid instead being a G and going to chassis ground.
That makes more sense having a switched hot (Y/R) and a classis ground (G) for a solenoid control circuit.

I poked around in the ALM manuals and found one parts manual for the 200 series that shows "Relay starter (6150/7150)", part # shown is 14225. I believe that those GY6 machines are the same in most respects.
You mentioned buying a new solenoid. Is this the one?

The manual you posted is actually the manual that I took that screen shot from, believe it or not. It is the same one I used to figure out the wiring mess on the kart to even get it started.

That is, indeed, the part number that I ordered as well.

Another thought I had for this - and I hope its not something this stupid - but is it possible that it is not cranking with key due to the fact that I do not have a brake light on this kart (and it originally had one) so I have a dead wire leading to nothing since the brake light is gone? Seems far fetched to me, but just something I am considering.

 

[h3re4fball]

Pick up a 12 volt test light and see if both solenoid terminals are hot. If so, the solenoid is getting power all the time which isn't good or the wiring going to the solenoid is closing the circuit intermittently. Only one side of the key switch should be hot. If both sides are hot you have power completing the circuit. Make sure the wires in the new key switch match the wires in the harness. The last one I changed had mismatched wires in the key switch. I only had power at the key with the key off. I had to re-pin the new key switch by pushing out the wires then reinserting them in the correct slots or holes. Check the fuse near the starter. The test light should help you find where you're getting power where you shouldn't be. Did you do any wiring repairs?

I am currently only getting hot on 1 terminal, so it looks like im good there (minimal voltage drop between battery and terminal too). I will check for matching wires once I get home tonight.
Heres the fun part - I am supposed to have multiple fuses wired in with the rear harness, and yet I cant find any at all.

As far as wiring repairs - you betcha I did. This was a mess when I got it, no CDM, all wires unhooked, and he stated it just "needed a carb" .. but I snagged it for $150 so I didnt care. I think I have everything tightened up for the most part, just tracing out these last couple of bugs.

 

[Snaker]

"The wiring diagram that you show is wrong I believe."

Snaker, I think he has the correct wiring diagram. I wouldn't go by the 200 Series diagram myself, the 6150/7150 should be correct. They both use the same solenoid/relay however. For whatever reason the solenoid is getting energized unless like you pointed out, he purchased the wrong one. This is an odd issue no doubt. Maybe the previous owner installed the wrong wiring harness or did some modifications to the harness. $150.00 for this type of vehicle is way below what they're going for. There's more to this story.

The 200 series service manual IS the 6150/7150 manual.
All three are listed on the same service manual.
Owners manuals and parts manuals get separated out but there is only one service manual that covers all three.

The manual PDF I dropped has two different wiring diagrams on adjoining pages.
The fun kart diagram shown here post #1 and a different diagram for 200/6150/7150.
Those diagrams are different.

 

[Denny]

It’s possible you could have a sticky solenoid on the starter or broken spring.

 

[Karttekk]

The 200 series service manual IS the 6150/7150 manual.
All three are listed on the same service manual.
Owners manuals and parts manuals get separated out but there is only one service manual that covers all three.

The manual PDF I dropped has two different wiring diagrams on adjoining pages.
The fun kart diagram shown here post #1 and a different diagram for 200/6150/7150.
Those diagrams are different.

I never said he has the wrong manual, I have the same manual downloaded from years ago, I said the UTV 200 Series wiring diagram isn't for his machine. One diagram is for the 200 Series UTV and the other is for the 6150/7150 Fun Kart. I don't think the 200 Series diagram is relevant.

"I wouldn't go by the 200 Series diagram myself, the 6150/7150 should be correct."

 

[Karttekk]

I am currently only getting hot on 1 terminal, so it looks like im good there (minimal voltage drop between battery and terminal too). I will check for matching wires once I get home tonight.
Heres the fun part - I am supposed to have multiple fuses wired in with the rear harness, and yet I cant find any at all.

As far as wiring repairs - you betcha I did. This was a mess when I got it, no CDM, all wires unhooked, and he stated it just "needed a carb" .. but I snagged it for $150 so I didnt care. I think I have everything tightened up for the most part, just tracing out these last couple of bugs.

I would still make sure the wires in the key switch match the wires in the harness. When you plug them together red should match red, green should match green, etc. I would go over what wires you repaired and use the 6150/7150 Fun Kart diagram as your guide. Something is crossed or you have a hot going to ground somewhere. Green is ground on this machine or most grounds are green. The battery ground might be black but that's one of few. I don't think the stop light is an issue.

 

[Karttekk]

If only one side of the solenoid is hot, you're effectively bypassing the solenoid and going hot right into the starter. Sounds like a pinched wire somewhere. Two hot wires but one is grounding out and completing the circuit. There are two harnesses and they connect behind the front seat. One runs from the key switch and the other runs from the CDI/power box area. The fuses should be in the harness coming from the CDI/power box on top of the engine driver's side.

 

[Snaker]

This is hard to clarify.
The Fun Kart diagram is for his machine, sure is.
The 200 includes a brake interlock switch that the Fun Kart, or at least some Fun Karts don't have
That is simply a additional switch added into the solenoid control circuit.

What I'm saying is that the Fun Kart diagram appears to be drawn wrong.

The solenoid is just a type of relay.
The contactors (two big terms/wires) open and close to connect batt to starter
The control circuit (two small terms/wires) require 12v hot and a gnd to operate and switch the contacts.

Skip the 200 brake interlock switch for a minute and look at the 200 diagram solenoid control wires.
The Y/W is a switched hot coming from the main switch output (Y/R) and through the brake interlock output (Y/W)
The G is going to chassis ground
That makes sense to operate.

The Fun Kart diagram has hot on both solenoid control wires.
The Y/R switched hot (good) and R straight off the batt (bad)
The R and Y/R are the same point electrically sans the switches.
There is no ground in that circuit to operate the solenoid.

ASW got a lot of things wrong in their documentation regarding the GY6 power plant electrical.
And I believe that the Fun Kart solenoid control connection is drawn wrong.

 

[Karttekk]

Okay. I see what you mean. He has the correct (wrongly drawn) diagram.

 

[h3re4fball]

OK everyone - got the solenoid in last night, installed my new brake light, and everything is now working great. Looks like the issue was within my solenoid itself. Great news! that made it a $12 fix!

 

[Karttekk]

OK everyone - got the solenoid in last night, installed my new brake light, and everything is now working great. Looks like the issue was within my solenoid itself. Great news! that made it a $12 fix!

Nice! Denny called it!