First build, Grand Daddy

Denny

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I’m sorry for derailing your thread. I have been around the block with old cars. I had a 70 Plymouth GTX 440 4bbl.
Current cars,
65 Pontiac GP, 389, 4bbl, th400, a/c, 8 lug brakes, am/fm, pwr ant, code nn maroon w/parchment interior.
66 Cadillac Calais with 0 options gold on gold 2 door. Not even a/c! 19,000 miles only one I have ever seen.
67 Impala SS convertible with white pwr top. Marina Blue Poly, med metallic blue interior. 275hp 327, 12 bolt position 4:10 gear, th400. All factory! 17,000 miles sitting since 76 in a barn that fell down around it.
75 corvette 4speed W/65 300hp 327 (future drag car)
75 Malibu future altered wheel base 454 drag car.
Yea, you could say I have a problem!

By the way the buggy is coming out great by the way! Probably better than any other I have seen built.
 

MTScott

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I’m sorry for derailing your thread. I have been around the block with old cars. I had a 70 Plymouth GTX 440 4bbl.
Current cars,
65 Pontiac GP, 389, 4bbl, th400, a/c, 8 lug brakes, am/fm, pwr ant, code nn maroon w/parchment interior.
66 Cadillac Calais with 0 options gold on gold 2 door. Not even a/c! 19,000 miles only one I have ever seen.
67 Impala SS convertible with white pwr top. Marina Blue Poly, med metallic blue interior. 275hp 327, 12 bolt position 4:10 gear, th400. All factory! 17,000 miles sitting since 76 in a barn that fell down around it.
75 corvette 4speed W/65 300hp 327 (future drag car)
75 Malibu future altered wheel base 454 drag car.
Yea, you could say I have a problem!

By the way the buggy is coming out great by the way! Probably better than any other I have seen built.

No worries, I never mind car talk.... I had to take down that TA pic because it had a sign with my full name and address in it, and, I dunno, I'm weird about that online.

You have an impressive line of hotrods in your stable... the 65 GP... that's a dream car. My next car might be a big car... I have a family of 4, and I've always thought that a big block 4 door chevelle or something similar would be the perfect way to haul us all around.

You sound like my friend that is eager to help me spend all my money. He has been building cars since HS and now he has about 16 killer rods. All classic stuff, several chevelles, several mopar (including a true cuda, superbee, etc...), GTO Judge, firebirds, etc. I'm very jealous of both of you.

I appreciate that compliment, especially in this crowd.
 

Denny

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In my lifetime I have had thousands of cars. Big and small block El Caminos, 63-66 Chevy trucks, chevelles, Plymouth Belvederes, Oldsmobiles big block cars. Right now I’m sitting on 2 455 engines a 76 low compression and a high compression 69 Toranado. Also a set of super rare C casting w30 heads. Buicks, Camaros, Firebirds and the list goes on and on. I almost forgot a 63 Nova SS body in white Dicky Harrell/Nickey Chevrolet built tube framed AWB fglass nosed AFX car that scared the pee out of me. Too bad I didn’t figure out what I had until about 10 years after I sold it for a $150 bucks. A $20,000 dollar car at the time! I still have nightmares about selling it 34 years later.
 
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MTScott

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Any update on your steering? I just built my control arms. What a pain. I need a bender some round tube A-arms would probably be easier than these multiple pieces welded together. I am no pro, looking at your build to know what to do haha.

Hey man, how is your build going?
 

MTScott

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Okay... not a ton of updates, but I did get the "dash" done. Much different than the plans called for. I wanted a actual dash... a place to install switchs, gauges, charge ports, and other electronics. I'm not 100% sure if I like how it turned out yet. It is possible I made it too high, at least for my son. I might alleviate that some by spacing the seats up 1in for now.

I used the lightest gauge 1" square tube I could find, it is .06x ... something. Weight is getting up there with all the additional metal I've added to these plans, and I didn't figure this part needed the extra strength.

I added these vertical pieces to attach the dash to. It took some testing and scribing to get the angles right. I used my large level to clamp them too in order to tack them in place at the same angle. I attempted to get them perpendicular to the floor, or close to it. This will also create a hand location to install some universal UTV mirrors.
0712220639b_copy_1164x873.jpg

Once I had the measurement for width, I made to cross bars with angles similar to what the plans call for, but I made the short 30* bits 4.5" instead of 4.

The cross bars were built seperate, then tacked together with some thin bar to act as spaces, and also a spot to screw an aluminum filler.
I wanted them to be mirrored and as even as possible everywhere.
0710221423_HDR_copy_873x1164.jpg
0710221601_copy_873x1164.jpg

Once I had it prepped all parallel, I taked it up on the kart:
0710221737_copy_1164x873.jpg
0712220639_copy_1164x873.jpg

It is setup so the face will be filled with a 4"x1/8" aluminum bar. I left about 1/16 clearance for fitment, paint, etc... I will also fill the top with aluminum, and likely tie that in with an aluminum plate that covers from the dash down to the shock tower to protect the electronics that will be placed in the dash.

Next step is getting the steering wheel, linkage, rack, rods, etc. installed.
 

MTScott

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Okay gents... my thought to use hiem joints for the steering rod ends may not work out. At the spindle end, it just doesn't seem to have near enough range to accomodate the suspension travel, nor turning angle. I just bolted it together here to test out it before I made the adapters brackets to create more of an "ackermanns angle", and it doesn't look promising. I think hiem joints will work just find at the steering rack end though, with pin mountend horizontal.

0716220959_copy_873x1164.jpg

I'm wondering if I'm missing something simple? I will likely swap my spindles around in order to flip the arms upside down to see if that helps, but I'm not sure it will help enough.

A joint like this might have worked better. It seems it would allow more travel than the cone spacers I'm using:
Grainger Hiem Rod end


Or should I go for something more like this:
Ebay Ball joint end

Any input appreciated.
 

Denny

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Flipping the spindle will help some and is worth the effort because they are upside down. Worry about the king pins only with the shocks at full extension and droop. If you have to move them up a little bit or put limiting straps on the front suspension. But other than flipping the spindles I see nothing wrong. The proper way to figure top shock placement is full extension of coil over and then Jack up the front of the kart and let the suspension droop. That is where the top mount goes. Then compress the suspension all the way and that is where the bump stop goes. Extend it all the way again and that is where the bump stop goes for the upper control arm.
 

Mvp6905

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Hey man, how is your build going?
Hey sorry I've been out of town visiting family in Texas for a few weeks. My build haha, well... its at a halt. Between school, work, training and a side hustle.... I'm both out of time and money haha. I just finished up my school but I'll be going out for another two weeks for some work training in a few days. So there my project sits, lonely begging for attention. I wasn't sure if you were still making progress as I haven't received any notifications for some reason, but I am glad to see you are still at it. You are my inspiration haha, cant wait to pick back up on the build.
 

MTScott

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Hey sorry I've been out of town visiting family in Texas for a few weeks. My build haha, well... its at a halt. Between school, work, training and a side hustle.... I'm both out of time and money haha. I just finished up my school but I'll be going out for another two weeks for some work training in a few days. So there my project sits, lonely begging for attention. I wasn't sure if you were still making progress as I haven't received any notifications for some reason, but I am glad to see you are still at it. You are my inspiration haha, cant wait to pick back up on the build.

Hey man that's how it goes... truth is I started this about 2 years ago, but portions of it sat for months before I really got after it. Fortunately for me I get to come home most every night, but the family does cut into project time. Sometimes all I can get done to stare at it, design something, order a few parts, or cut a few bits so they're ready for my next 15 minute opportunity for progress. I'm also a closet perfectionist, but don't always have the skill to make it perfect. So, I stall, and hymn and haw and think and re-think until I finally say F-it and start melting stuff together :).
 
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MTScott

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Flipping the spindle will help some and is worth the effort because they are upside down. Worry about the king pins only with the shocks at full extension and droop. If you have to move them up a little bit or put limiting straps on the front suspension. But other than flipping the spindles I see nothing wrong. The proper way to figure top shock placement is full extension of coil over and then Jack up the front of the kart and let the suspension droop. That is where the top mount goes. Then compress the suspension all the way and that is where the bump stop goes. Extend it all the way again and that is where the bump stop goes for the upper control arm.

So you're saying the spindles should be oriented like this, with the arms angled down:

0716221259_HDR_copy_873x1164.jpg
 

Denny

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I have never seen spindles built like that with that angle. Your going to have to get inventive and straighten those out and while you are at it build in a little Ackerman and caster.
 

MTScott

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I have never seen spindles built like that with that angle. Your going to have to get inventive and straighten those out and while you are at it build in a little Ackerman and caster.

Yeah it is annoying. I've built some brackets to make "ackermanns", but I may have to cut them, and put in a bend to make them work proper

1/4 in bar is what I had laying around so it'll take some doing... Or maybe I'll just start over.

Something else, the spindle bolt is welded on to the "high" side of the spindle barrel in the above picture (the spindle bolt is offset near the top of the kingpin barrel). I had them flipped opposite of the above picture partially for clearance... I'm wondering now how it would affect handling now. to get something closer to a proper "scrub" radius (not that I'm anywhere close), having the spindle bolt higher might make some sense too???
 
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MTScott

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Just an FYI:
Some go kart parts stores have "U-weld spindle kits" like this one from BMI karts ;)
https://www.bmikarts.com/U-Weld-Bearing-Spindle-Kit_p_1322.html

They also have separate/individual parts available
...where you could build a set of custom spindles (that "fit" your needs) :thumbsup:

Great info, thank you... I thought I was doing the smart thing as a beginner getting the prebuilt ones, but the more I do this the more I think making them might be the ticket.

Edit: hmmm, those spindle barrels in that kit accept bearings too.... that sounds nice.
 

Denny

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The 1/4” would work pretty good. Those look like a very well made spindle. I would just grind off the arms and start over with the 1/4”. I like my suspension parts a little meatier. Yea, you sacrifice more unsprung weight. But less chances of parts breakage at a bad time.
 

MTScott

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I jumped through some hoops to do it, but I do believe I have the steering sorted out. I might lose some of you on the mods I made to the steering rack to do it, but lets call it an experiment.

First, lets start with the steering rack mount. The front bracket was a weldment I ordered with the rack, the rear is just a short piece of 1.25" angle. I think some just use the front weldment, but I wanted this more solid as the load from the steering will not simply be end load on the rack as you'll see below. It fit perfectly on 2" by 1/8" bar. That might seem light duty, but it is possible I'll have to cut this out and redo it. With the bracket and the angle welded to it, it is actually quite strong.

0721221132_copy_931x698.jpg is


I built these little end caps for the steering rack (I removed the heim joints). I didn't get any pictures of the process before grinding, painting, smoothing, etc... but it was made of small pieces of 1/4x1" bar, clamped and bolted to the end of the rack to take advantage of the flat machined ends of the rack. There is a 3/8 nut welded into the side, which is where the tie rod ended will be fastened. I built the nuts out of a coupling nut, and used my drill press and a flap disk to bevel one end... kinda like a small lug nut.

0721220724_copy_931x698.jpg

0721221132a_copy_931x698.jpg

Why am I bastardizing this nice steering rack, one might ask. Good question, and this is where some of you might be thinking I'm ruining this setup, and I'm not sure you'd be wrong. The A-arms are parallel, that means there is no geometry to figure out what the steering rod should be to avoid bump steer - the rod simply should be the same length and mostly parrallel with the arms - pivot to pivot (in my mind). So I went to all this trouble to accomplish that, and still use the 11" rack (which has much more throw lock to lock than the 8" rack). I also already had the 11" rack (two of them, in fact). I'm not sure how much stress this will add to the rack, and if it can handle it or not, but we're giving it a go.

These plates were made to create ackermanns angle. I did the math simply by figuring the length from the front spindle on center the to rear axle, then did a little right triangle calculation. I arrived at 3/4" of an inch inward on line with the stock arm tie rod hole, and 7/8" inward 1/2" extended for the next hole. The aren't pretty yet, but I'm still working on this solution.
0717220858_HDR_copy_931x698.jpg


When I ordered the heim kit I got a standard panhard bar kit, with tube adapters. This tube is actually 3/4" EMT conduit (or maybe 1/2", I can't remember), and it works about perfect for 3/8" hiem joint tube adapters. I had to file out the end with a round file, then they pounded in nice with a rubber mallet. I'm just going to drill a couple spots and plug weld it. If I every have to redo these I'll be able to reuse the adapters. The EMT conduit is thinwall stuff, galvanized, and also lined with something. It'll be light, and believe plenty strong for this purpose.
0722221429_HDR_copy_698x931.jpg

Installed.
0722221434a_copy_698x931.jpg

I initially attached the rod end on the top side of the spindle arm, but with the way these arms were made it was too high. After I installed them below it worked great.... little to no bump steer, visibly at least. There may be a problem at full lock though (somewhat created by the angle of the arm), but I think I know how I'll solve that.
0722221434_copy_931x698.jpg

This was better
0723220935_copy_931x698.jpg


I think I'll be taking off those brackets, doing some cutting and bending on the spindle arm, and welding in my "ackermans" adapters so they come off at a 90 degree angle from the spindle. The weird angle of the spindle arm can causes binding at the heim joint when fully extended in a turn with compressed suspension (or dropping, depending on which size). I think this could cause the tie rod to bind, and likely bend or break. I do not want my suspension to be limited by the tie rods, so I'll be working on ways to resolve that.
 
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MTScott

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I'm currently setting up the drivetrain... I ordered 3 different belt sizes -85A, -86A, and -88A. It turns out, the 88 gave me the room I needed.

on gokartsupply, it says for the 88, that the center to center distance on the 40 series clutch should be 10-1/16". I've never set one of these up before so I'm not sure how it should look. When I space it out the way the spec says, I end up with more slack than I figured I would. Like, maybe 2ish inches of play in the belt. Does that seem correct?
 

MTScott

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What do you mean exactly?

Here we go, this should make more sense than my typed gibberish :). I made a video showing belt slack in the converter. If anyone can let me know if it seems correct, that would help, thanks.


Here is where I got the spec for the belt:

7.5" driven pulley, belt is 203788
 
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